Awards & Decorations of the World

Insignia, Headgear, Helmets, Uniforms, Daggers & Swords of the Third Reich - & the World
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 1:47 pm 
The Dutch SS Sports badge bronze, what are the comments?


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 2:28 pm 
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i saw it for sale too but got something else comming from CG...and decided to let this one just for what it is...
And to be honest i don't know what to think of this one, these are as rare as it gets and i've never seen one for real or in a collection...it would be great to have a real one of course....But since the gold one on his site was not good i got my doubts on this one, though it COULD be real maybe? We definately need some more information on these but i haven't found any source (paper)work on this award so far ( same with the mussert cross, late war awards are a pain in the ass to investigate)...


What would be the chance of CG finding a gold AND a Bronze variant whereas no one so far has even seen one?



Also look at the last picture:

Attachment:
SSbadgeC.jpg



Where is the corrosion on the right of the mark now? Clearly that was on the backside of the second picture?


Also NSB nr 129 P.G.R ... If these were marked and numbered there HAS to be some sort of list available somewhere...

If it were real i'd buy it, but would want some solid prove to come with the badge...

Just my thoughts, sorry it's not very much...


Gaston


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:03 pm 
It is interesting that the same NSB Number is on the badge shown and the Gold version with sword. I have my grave doubts about these awards. They were introduced as

The Dutch SS Sports Badge.
Bronze, Silver, Gold.

The Dutch SS, later known as the Germanic SS in the Netherlands, was nominally a sub-section of the N.S.B. ,but in practice was entirely German controlled. In 1941 the leader of the Dutch SS, J.H.Feldmeyer instituted a sports Badge in the form of an oval wreath of laurel leaves enclosing the SS runes. This badge was awarded on an age basis as follows.

Bronze: for men between the ages of 20 and 29.

Silver: for men between the ages of 30 and 42.

Gold: for men over the age of 42.

However, these were superceded by the Germanic SS proficency runes. Thus the life of the award could not have been more than 18 months. We also have film of Reuter awarding the German Sports badge in 1942.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:27 pm 
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Chris, I didn't looked at the gold backside number, indeed even more suspicious!


i just had a look at the gold one and there are a few things i don't like:

Attachment:
626(3).jpg



-1 The way the letters are printed on the back, ok im talking about the gold one here but different than the bronze one!!!! It looks as if done in a hurry, sloppy.

-2 As you pointed out: the same number as the bronze one! Now with an age classification as posted above that's impossible for someone to have both! The award was at the wars end made, so no way someone could have both! Ok, it's still possible the gold is fake but the bronze is real, but what's the chance of CG finding both then at the same time and offer them for sale? I don't like it and wouldn't but such a rare award as the bronze one with this in mind, it just wouldn't feel okay...


Further:

Attachment:
626.jpg



-3 Look at the needle attachment, totally different! On top AND bottom!!!! (Though i like the bronze one more here, the idea of such big differences raises a doubt for the bronze too)


-4 The very bad way the SS is attached to it's surrounding borders, for such a high class award that looks very unproffesional? Also the bronze when looking at the backside picture shows on the right top S attachment a little sloppy soldering?




Maybe im seeing ghosts everywhere, but all together it's not very promising?


Unfortunately i don't have the books of Littlejohn, Mollo or Dodgkins, could anyone who has these scan them maybe? I'd love to see/read more, even it'it not very much....(The picture you posted is fromt he normal sports badges (drl?), no matter what year they are from, the dutch ss badges are from 1944 i think? (just from my head, don't have the source available so fast...), too bad the picture is not very high detailed nevertheless).


Also the videofragment, where is it from? I might be able to get my hands on it and would definately like to see it myself.

EDIT: been reading too fast, i thought i read there was a videofragmetn of the dutch ss badge being handed out....



Kind regards,
Gaston


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 3:57 pm 
The Dutch badge was introduced in 1941, late. But it was superceded by


the GERMANIC PROFICIENCY RUNES.


The firm of Kremnitz, in the Protectorate, reportedly only made these badges, and this raises the question of the two variations for which no answer is available at this time. These badges had no markings of any kind on the reverse, and had a semi-broad standard pin. The enamelled runes were fastened to the badge with two pins per rune, flattened over on the reverse.

Originally no proficiency badges were available for all branches of the Germanic SS and in fact only in Holland had any SS sports badges been introduced at all. Himmler however wanted a badge that would be available to both the General SS in Germany and the Germanic SS abroad and which would not only require a high standard in various sports but also ability in military activities and National Socialist ideology. His reasons for introducing such a badge were many. He wished to encourage his political SS men to keep athletically fit and have their minds well tuned to the Nazi way of thinking and also to inject into essentially non – combatant SS members a competitive interest in basic military training. On a much grander scale he aimed at strengthening the pan – Germanic idea within the entire political SS organization.

The badge that Himmler introduced was called the Germanic Proficiency Runes, and its very design was geared to appeal particularly to the Germanic SS. For the two victory runes of the SS were superimposed upon a mobile swastika, the formation sign of the “Wiking” division of the Waffen – SS, later adopted by the entire III. Germanic SS Panzer Corps, which was made up largely of volunteers from the Germanic countries. The badge was instituted in two grades, bronze and silver, with a higher standard required for the attainment of the silver. It was worn in the centre of the left breast pocket of the service uniform.

Once Himmler had decided upon instituting the Germanic Proficiency Runes, he handed over to Berger and his SS – Hauptamt the task of devising the badges attainment rules and regulations. These were published on 15 July 1943 and the introduction ran as follows,

“Regulations for the award of the Germanic Proficiency Runes. The Germanic Proficiency Runes shall be awarded to those that have distinguished themselves in sports competions and shown spiritual maturity and sound personal thinking in the ideological field. It can be won by German and other Germanic men.

To be qualified for the Germanic Proficiency Runes one must fulfil the regulations laid down in the following three categories:

(1) Individual achievement;
(2) Team achievement;
(3) Test in theoretical education (ideology).

The award shall be made by the Chief of the SS – Hauptamt following consultation with the Reichsführer – SS. Recipients of the Germanic Proficiency Runes receive at the same time a diploma witnessing the award.

Those that wish to try for the Germanic Proficiency Runes and are not members of the Germanic SS, nor aspirants in that organization, must hold a political leaders card issued by an SS service centre to be able to join a preparation course. The test for the Germanic Proficiency Runes requires a preparation of three weeks. Applicants must then take part in a course laid down for the attainment of the Proficiency Runes, or be able to complete 120 satisfactory hours of training, which must not be spread over more than six consecutive months.

The test shall be carried out by a fully qualified representative of the SS – Hauptamt, Instruction Section, assisted by two members of a Germanic SS service centre. The Proficiency Runes shall be worn on the left side of the uniform, more correctly with service dress.

The Chief of the SS – Hauptamt can from time to time insist that the tests be taken again. Those unable to achieve the requirements, or who do not take part, forfeit the badge.

It is at the discretion of the Chief of the SS – Hauptamt whether or not the badge shall be withdrawn on account of minor infringements or for other reasons.

Berlin, July 15th, 1943.
Reichsführer – SS
Chief of SS – Hauptamt
(signed) Berger.



From his headquarters on August 15 1943 Himmler officially introduced the German Proficiency Runes. In the institution document he stated that it “should be an example in physical training and tests in the use of weapons in the National Socialist spirit, and confirmation of the voluntary attainment of the Germanic joint destiny”. His introduction ended by referring to the rules and regulations for the attainment of the badge that had been prepared by the SS-Hauptamt.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 4:07 pm 
N.S.B. Nr 127 p.g.r, if this is not the award number! Could this be a patternt number? If so two things are brought into question, firstly I have not seen any of the other NSB awards with a similar pattent number. Secondly if it were a patternt number, then both types having the same number would be highly suspious.

David Littlejohn illistrates the badges, but clearly states they are post war fakes.


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 5:13 pm 
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Chris, Where did you find the information of the late 1941 institution of the award? And after digging around a bit quickly, i found the following information:

Quote:
Together with Rost van Tonningen Feldmeijer set up the Mussert-Guard in 1939. This youth organization of the NSB, in which in reality young men served, showed agreements with the SS. The men got a political training, a heavy physical training and one had to satisfy the desired race choice (Jews were not allowed to join).



it says the same as you typed above here and is probably more prove of the date 1941 (this should teach me once again to not type everything from my mind but look up the facts.... Mr. Green ).

Anyway, it seems logic in this light that the award was handed out from 1941, but with about 4000+ dutch SS members it would seem that there would be more awards available then?




About N.S.B. Nr 127 p.g.r,... i don;t know any patternt awards? But all the ones i know are NOT marked like this?

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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:31 pm 
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Here's another example of a number 127........ Somethings not quite right Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes

or perhaps if 127 was a person, he was very fit.. Mr. Green Mr. Green Mr. Green

Attachment:
127.jpg

Attachment:
127a.jpg


I get a lot on links sent to my for sale site by companies in pakistan selling badges....
I saw all grades for sale... and were well made, Same as pictured above.

Guess what number they all had !!!! (127) Mr. Green Mr. Green Unfortunatly i have lost the link..

Mark


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 7:44 pm 
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Hello Friends, Posted below are some Profeciency Runes that a friend of mine has on his website for sale. I really like the case. The price is P.O.R., so one can only imagiane what they are going for. anyway I thought that you would like to have a look. Stormtrooper


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:19 pm 
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@Mark, thats in silver? That shouldn't even exist ;-)


@ Butch: even a cased example, Shocked I like the backside with the attachmentpins,
Beautiful badges, very much character there. (maybe its time to get one as long as it's possible? Razz)


And with the risc of going more offtopic: are the silver ones more common than the bronze ones? Qualifcation should be harder but i can imagine the SS-ers to go for the harder to obtain award if possible?

Also: a picture of the certificate would be nice? i don't know it yet....



Regards,
Gaston

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